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View Full Version : .22, 12g, and...?



Javin
08-15-2011, 04:56 PM
So currently I have an old marlin .22, the kind where the magazine is the tube under the muzzle. (I don't even know enough about guns to pretend to be intelligent about them.) I've made a dozen speed loaders with some old arrow shafts, and I keep a half dozen boxes of ammo at the ready. I plan to ultimately stock up with plenty of ammo, since the .22 is good for everything from coyotes to birds (I'm a decent shot).

I also have a 12g with less than a hundred rounds of slugs for anything larger than a dog.

My question is, what should my next purchase be? The 12g isn't realistic for home defense (which is my #1, absolute, utmost, primary concern) and the .22 might just piss people off more.

On the other hand, I want to have plenty of ammo stockpiled without raising too many eyebrows. (My current job requires a fairly high security clearance.) What's a good rifle that shares ammo with a decent hand gun where picking up a half dozen boxes of bullets at a time wouldn't cause people to eyeball you? PilloTox and I have also agreed that it's time for us both to get a CCW, and keep BOB's in our cars. ("One Second After" did wonders for opening both of our eyes.) However I suspect hers will look more like a purse and God forbid she actually finds a pink ruck-sack.

So looking for suggestions. I'm not so concerned about how "straight" a gun shoots as any gun will be straight enough for our uses. I'm more concerned about reliability, the ability to use the same ammo in both the rifle and the hand gun, and how accessible that ammo would be.

We're both decent shots. Hell, Pillotox's first time ever firing any sort of weapon at all was a 9 mil Smith & Wesson MNP, and with shaking hands her shot grouping was less than 8 inches at 40 yards reminding me not to ever REALLY make her mad... So we're not looking for any sort of "spray and pray" weaponry. More along the lines of something that can stop the problem quickly, but allows for enough rounds in case our nerves get the better of us.

Maybe I'm looking for a "holy grail" of weapon sets, but you guys would know better than I.

snarlbuckle
08-15-2011, 05:47 PM
You might want to look at a lever action rifle chambered in a revolver cartridge. If my facts are straight, you can find some in .357 or .44 mag. What I don't know though is whether or not a .357 lever action will accept .38 special cartridges like a .357 revolver would. Lever action rifles are usually fairly short, and are great in thick brush or for carrying with your rucksack.

Having said all of that, I can't help but jump into a debate on caliber. First though, I want to direct you to: http://www.theboxotruth.com/. IF you are one of the people concerned with over penetration (which I find to be a good thing), then you'll notice that even 'small' pistol rounds penetrate much like buckshot, and I'm sure magnum cartridges penetrate much like a slug. The only real exceptions I've noticed on that site are birdshot and rounds with an extremely high velocity/mass ratio such as .223 Remington and .22-250. With that in mind, I would suggest an AR-15 variant if you are concerned with penetration. If not, I would stick with a short, light 12g with few if any accessories for home defense.

If the world comes to an end, you'll want weapons chambered in rounds that you can find. Some might think that the common calibers would disappear faster, some think that since there is more to be found, they would stick around longer. Who knows. I personally like to keep all of my firearms chambered in common calibers if only for the ease of finding ammo in stores. At the end of the day, my favorite gun is my pump action 12g because given the right ammo, "if its within 50 yards, this will kill it".

EX121
08-15-2011, 06:19 PM
First off let me urge you both to get some training. I don't mean extensive 'combat' training but some basic handeling training. I think that a 12 gague is a good home defense weapon. You can shoot various sizes of shot & slugs.
One of the guns I have is a Highpoint .40s&w carbine it is lightweight & reliable, it takes the same caliber cartrige as one of my handguns thus making ammo storage easier.
I'm not sure of why you are concerned that buying a lot of ammo will jepordaize your security clearance. Unless in your area they keep track of how much you buy.
My 2 cents worth, good luck.

harrya
08-15-2011, 06:57 PM
OK, I couldn't stand it any longer... I'll throw my 1 cents worth in (inflation you know). If it's two of you working together and you wish to be at least somewhat standard, how about 38/347 - 9mm , .40 or .45. You can get hand guns and also long carbine types to use the same ammo for 4 guns for the both of you. close up handguns, reach out 100 yds or so long guns. I'd also suggest some bird shot and #4 for your 12 ga.
Insure you know how to use and clean each one and fire them more then once in a while. Save your brass/hulls as you may find someone who will reload on a percentage.
harrya

Matt In Oklahoma
08-15-2011, 07:19 PM
People round here don't even blink at 1/2 dozen boxes of ammo but wow the questions you gotta answer when you buy 20lbs of assorted noodles for the first bucket! LOL

TheDogofWar
08-15-2011, 07:33 PM
The Marlin is a damn fine shooter especially for the price. I have a PDF manual around if you would like one.

I honestly can't recommend a better choice than a mossberg 500 series 12g for home defense. Pump action reliability and available in 18.5" barrel length. I'm guessing you've got some sort of hunting shotgun with a 26" barrel and you would be absolutely correct that it's a bad choice. Try navigating hallways with that or come around a corner near me and I'll probably swipe it from you before you see me.

I can't encourage EX121's advice about training and experience enough. Never point a weapon at anyone or anything until you plan to fire. Know and verify the location of any member of the house or be absolutely sure of your target before firing. Don't bet your life on the effects of a strobe gunlight effect either. If I'm the bad guy and blinded, I will blind fire at the source immediately. The adrenaline rush when faced with life and death is extremely overwhelming, unless you've been there before you can count on being wild.

protus
08-15-2011, 10:15 PM
marlin mdl 60 is what you have more than not. Good rifles, very accurate. I tried to kill mine. It still works great.

if you have the 12g and 22lr. Best bet for rifles would be a rifle IMHO an MBR of sorts.

get some basic training as well and build from there.

610Alpha
08-15-2011, 11:40 PM
Personally I would trade/sell the Marlin .22 and get a Ruger 10/22. Having a .22 that uses magazines is far easier to reload than using arrow shafts...IMHO.

TheDogofWar
08-15-2011, 11:47 PM
Personally I would trade/sell the Marlin .22 and get a Ruger 10/22. Having a .22 that uses magazines is far easier to reload than using arrow shafts...IMHO.


Please provide evidence that a magazine fed rifle is superior or at least that a ruger is superior.

baldsith
08-16-2011, 12:25 AM
I guess what caliber do you have...what hand gun do you have....you can get a glock 17 in 9mm and or a glock 22 in .40....then get a keltec SUB-2000...its a foldable carbine that will take the glock magazines and shoot same pistol ammo

WiseOwl
08-16-2011, 12:25 AM
I honestly can't recommend a better choice than a mossberg 500 series 12g for home defense. Pump action reliability and available in 18.5" barrel length. I'm guessing you've got some sort of hunting shotgun with a 26" barrel and you would be absolutely correct that it's a bad choice. Try navigating hallways with that or come around a corner near me and I'll probably swipe it from you before you see me.


The one that sits by my bedside and I call Honey #2....love the shorter barrel and could slice a needle with it.

610Alpha
08-16-2011, 12:39 AM
Please provide evidence that a magazine fed rifle is superior or at least that a ruger is superior.


Where in my post did I say either a magazine fed rifle or a ruger is superior? I didn't....I said far easier to reload.:confused:

I have reloaded my grandfather's marlin .22 ALOT and I have reloaded a Magazine fed .22 ALOT, which one would I want to reload if time was of the essence? The magazine fed one.:D

Lets look at it this way, which would you rather carry around, a bunch of old arrows with .22 ammo in them or a bunch of .22 magazines? Which will fit into ammo pouches easier :cool:?

Again, I DID NOT say the ruger was superior nor that a magazine fed was superior. I said far easier to reload. If want to keep your tube loaded Marlin by all means do so...reminds me of loading a musket in some aspects...not very fast :p

Klayton
08-16-2011, 01:53 AM
Well most have chimed in already, but let me say my 2 copper pieces...

I have a .22 with a "tubular magazine" (thats the name you were looking for I think), mine is a Marlin, and I specifically picked it because of one key feature: accepts ALL 3 basic .22 ammo (that is Long Rifle, Long, and Short ammo). They sell speed loaders for tube magazines, if you need a speed loader for a .22 though I am more along the line of thinking your using the wrong gun for the situation. But hey, to each their own.

12-gauge, AWESOME HOME DEFENSE GUN! Our home defense gun is a Remington 12 gauge with OO buck.
Shotguns are your most versatile guns out there, birdshot, buckshot, slugs, sabot, and even "exotic" ammo. I posted this earlier if you want to find it somewhere in the Armory section.

If I were you I definitely would be buy a hand gun next (if you do not already have one). There is just too many times a handgun is what you will have better access to in SHTF era. After that, a designated rifle (hunting deer & anti personnel -err I mean anti bad guy).

Finally, depending one where you live, you may want to invest in a .410 for some wild rabbit hunting. I know some people can hunt rabbits with a .22 (my Dad for one), but I prefer the .410.

So a basic starter prepper armory would be: #1) shotgun #2) handgun #3) med-large bore rifle #4 tie between) small bore rifle (.22 or .17HMR) and an assault style rifle (think ar15/ak47) box magazine, semi-automatic

That is your basic starting armory, IMHO, hope it helps... OH, and you can never have too much ammo 8)

Javin
08-16-2011, 09:03 AM
Thank you all for the advice! To clarify, I'm very, very comfortable with weapons. While in the Army I could break down my M16-A2 to the firing pin AND put it back together, blindfolded, in under two minutes. I even did it several times winning $20 a pop.

I literally never missed a shot my entire time in the military. Every single round *always* found it's target. (I actually shoot off-handed, my theory being that your dominant hand should be doing the steadying/aiming, not just pulling the trigger. Feels weird at first, but I recommend everyone give it a try).

My Marlin/Mossburg are well taken care of, cleaned/oiled after each trip to the range, and I've walked PilloTox through every step of the weapon to explain why there's no reason to be afraid of them if you're not being stupid while ALSO teaching her the "The gun is ALWAYS loaded, even when it's not" rule.

All of that said, I also ONLY know these three guns. I don't know the geek-speak of the different types of guns, and pretty much suck with a hand-gun (my right eye's bad, which is what prompted me to shoot off handed in the first place). So I wouldn't know a 9mm Smith & Wesson MNP from a... Well, see, I don't even know what to compare it to. With my initial statement of "I don't even know enough about guns to pretend to be intelligent about them," I was referring to brands, calibres, etc. Put one in my hands, and I can assure you I'm quite comfortable with it. Sorry for any confusion.


People round here don't even blink at 1/2 dozen boxes of ammo but wow the questions you gotta answer when you buy 20lbs of assorted noodles for the first bucket! LOL

LOL! Well, it's considerably different around here. Nobody bats an eye if you walk out of Costco with 500 lbs. of rice, but if you buy 4 boxes of Ammo (so close to D.C.) questions start coming up.


I honestly can't recommend a better choice than a mossberg 500 series 12g for home defense. Pump action reliability and available in 18.5" barrel length. I'm guessing you've got some sort of hunting shotgun with a 26" barrel and you would be absolutely correct that it's a bad choice. Try navigating hallways with that or come around a corner near me and I'll probably swipe it from you before you see me.

Funny you say that. Mine is, in fact, a Mossburg 500. Picked it up at Wal-Mart (as much as I hate them) about 7 years ago. It's been a great gun. Came with both the 18" and 26" barrel (and a series of chokes). This is precisely why I've been worried about trying to use it in the house. Forget about it if someone's hiding around a corner. Even with the 18" barrel, the gun's just not maneuverable enough. (Course if you KNOW they're around the corner, a slug through the wall can mitigate that problem.) You should also see the ridiculous scope I have on it. You'd be amazed how accurate a slug can be at 100+ yards.

So it sounds like the consensus is, "Shotty's good, get some buckshot, but also get a hand gun." Now, I realize that asking people to say which hand gun is the best is like asking everyone on the forums whose kid is the smartest, but again, I'm looking for something that won't raise eyebrows when buying two of them, something easily carried in a BOB, and something I can buy plenty of ammo for without raising eyebrows.


I'm not sure of why you are concerned that buying a lot of ammo will jepordaize your security clearance. Unless in your area they keep track of how much you buy.

Last time I went to Wal-Mart to pick up .22's I got 4 boxes of 150 each, and the guy started getting VERY chatty with me. What was I getting so many for? (To teach my GF how to shoot.) What range was I going to? (Had that one ready too.) Do I spend much time there / go often? etc. etc. etc. All I need is for some jerk-off alarmist to make a call to the cops thinking he's being some big hero. As a contractor, it's *nothing* for them to decide they'd rather just drop you from the contract than deal with any minor hassle when it comes to your clearance. Especially in today's environment. Plus, my 5 year re-up is about 3 years overdue. (They're so far behind that they don't even do them until you switch contracts now.) So if possible, I'd prefer just not to take the chance. But that said, I do also want to sock away a ridiculous number of rounds. (I'm more concerned about the round count for long-term hunting / bartering reasons.)

So all of that said, what's the recommended hand gun?

EX121
08-16-2011, 09:40 AM
Boy with all that said, I'd go with a Ruger Mk3 .22 with a bull barrel. I know not a lot of stopping power, but you can again share ammo with the Marlin .22. A bit heavy but my wife shoots mine ok. A possible ploy to buy your ammo at a bunch of different stores?

Javin
08-16-2011, 10:20 AM
Boy with all that said, I'd go with a Ruger Mk3 .22 with a bull barrel. I know not a lot of stopping power, but you can again share ammo with the Marlin .22. A bit heavy but my wife shoots mine ok. A possible ploy to buy your ammo at a bunch of different stores?

Sounds like a possible winner, if for no other reason than the ammo sharing. Can it handle .22 longs, or do I have to buy shorts?

Javin
08-16-2011, 10:26 AM
Sounds like a possible winner, if for no other reason than the ammo sharing. Can it handle .22 longs, or do I have to buy shorts?

Indeed it does. I'll look into a couple of these! Sounds like I'll also have to buy a 9mm for the CCW class in Virginia, too. Apparently you have to supply your own 9mm and 1000 rounds for the class. I did like the MNP when we fired it.

jmsneorrcom
08-16-2011, 10:41 AM
I see Elittles point of view - not saying that one is superior to the next one - he is just saying that it is easier to reload the weapon with magazines than one shell at a time down the tube.

Javin
08-16-2011, 12:48 PM
I see Elittles point of view - not saying that one is superior to the next one - he is just saying that it is easier to reload the weapon with magazines than one shell at a time down the tube.

Yeah, I can agree that a magazine load would even be far faster than my speed loader tubes. That said, though, I don't think I'll be doing anything with the .22 that I need more than 18 shots in rapid succession. If I can't clear the problem with the shotgun and handgun, then I have problems bigger than the little .22 plinker can handle. :)

610Alpha
08-16-2011, 02:12 PM
Thanks Javin :)

blankstare
07-26-2012, 12:08 AM
ok...lets say this is for the "end of days"....you may not be into the spray and pray....i would prefer keeping thier heads down, breaking up the mob, engaging multiple targets (zombies perhaps?)...etc

magazines are the way to go....i had a tube fed winchester, loved it, dropped it from high, bent the feed tube, busted, makd a great single shot, i think it's still in the shop somewhere

my suggestion... 9mm (prob a barreta), 12 ga (rem 870), mini 14 (cheaper that an ar, less frightening than an ak, not outta place for hunting)

just my opinion

WILL
07-26-2012, 07:42 AM
Javin- You've already made some really great choices for firearms. A Mossberg 500 with an 18" barrel is the perfect home defense weapon. Might I suggest a picatiny rail on the pump with a light attached and some 00 buck shot. Since most violent encounters happen at night, the light may be helpful. Since you already have the bird barrel, you can hunt with it too. Very smart. The Marlin 60 is a fantastic small game getter and can work well as a bug out gun too. I have both those weapons too, so I know exactly what they can and can't do. Ya done great so far.

OK, what would I do now if I were you.... #1 would be applying for a CCW for both of you. #2 would be a CCW weapons. I've been CCW for over 20 years now, and carried all kinds of guns, so I have some ideas. I don't want to get into a long winded caliber debate, so let me just get to the point. Get the smallest CCW you feel comfortable with. I carry a 7 shot .380 S&W Body Guard. The Ruger LCP is real nice too. Forget all your mega-disaster fear and focus on reality for your CCW. Reality is you and your wife waking up every morning for the rest of your life and putting this gun on...but probably never needing it. A 2 pound .45 ain't going to help you if you weren't carrying it due to its size and weight. That .380 or sub-compact 9mm will slide in your pocket every day and you'll forget it's there. If I have my pants on, I'm armed, and it's absolutely effortless for me. I couldn't say that when I was CCW my Glock 27 or Ruger SP101. There was always some level of discomfort or inconvenience involved with carrying the larger guns. The larger the gun, the bigger the problem.

Anyhow, you can bulk up on all kinds of Zombie Apocalypse guns in the future, but a CCW weapon is probably the most likely to see action saving your bacon. When you're looking at them, don't get too wrapped up in high ammunition capacity or large calibers. You're looking for the smallest gun you can find from a reputable manufacturer that will get you out of a scrape in an emergency. While I'm not crazy about dropping below the .380 threshold, I wouldn't even rule out a .22 or .22 mag if that's what you like.

PS- don’t worry about what others think of you buying guns or ammo.

Trebuchet
08-09-2012, 02:19 PM
I recommend a pistol of some sort. As that you are new to them I would go revolver in .357 loaded with .38spl. but if you get a good deal on a straight .38spl. don't hold back. Be sure to get a full sized pistol. Snubs and compact designs are harder to control.

tarheelsman71
08-09-2012, 09:36 PM
I would like to echo baldsith. Keltec sub2000 9mm, and a glock 9mm. They share the same magazines, ammo, and are both easy to shoot. The rifle is very compact, but with iron sights is very accurate out to 50 yards. If you wanted to do the .223 thing, then I would get a keltec PLR 16 and an AR15. Both are fun to shoot as well.