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View Full Version : Here's what I am doing for firearms



Bud
10-10-2011, 07:54 PM
First of all, I am "older". To many of you, I am probably borderline decrepit. <GRIN>

I joined the Army in 1965 right out of high school. Went to VN as a helicoper crew chief/door gunner in January 1966 and I stayed until September 1968. The money was decent and ammo was free. They even gave us new helicopters when we broke the one we were issued.

In March 1969, I came hhome and became a cop. That lasted until 1987 when I was Chief of a small department and my wife goit tired of heariung me whining about how I should have stayed in the Army. She dared me to do it so I paid two years military time into the State pension program giving me 20, retired, and went back on active duty at age 40 where i promptly found out the new Army wasn's the old Army and you could actually throw up more than once on an every morning 5K formation run. On the Friday morning 10K formation run, I believe I was actually able to throw up food I hadn't even eaten yet.

But, this time i went Infantry and started working my way up. In June, 1997, I was promoted to First Sergeant of a light Infantryt company. In August of that same year, I wnt over a cliff backwards at night and the impact fractured L4,L5 and S1 vertebrae and my l;eft shoulder. After a series of operations including a spinal fusion, I learned to walk in time to be medically retired in 1999.

(sigh) I still miss it even now.

So, anyways, I do have some firearms experience and here's what I beieve is needed by everyone and it incluides a minmum of six guns.

First of all, .22lr is probably the most useful caliber that you woill have. I think you need a really good .22lr rifle and pistol. Personally, I like semi autos and I have an M&P 15-22 rifle and an M&P 22 pistol (they just came out and I got one of the first ones)

.22lr is good for hunting, training and defense. Don't let anyone tell you that .22 doesn't kill because more people die of 22lr wounds in ther US every year than any other caliber. True, it has little knock down power but don't mistake the fact that no one wants to get shot with anything. Getting shot with a .22lr after SHTF when limited medical care is available is probably a game ender. Maybe not right away but within days if it is a torso hit. Having had the advantage of having both shot people and having been shot, I can guarantee you that neither is a fun experience. I can put a burst of 25 rounds of .22lr down range accurately out to 100 yards in under five seconds. B y accurately I mean a paper dessert sized plate and keep all twenty five on the paper. That will cause someone to stay under cover and it will only cost me about $1.00 in ammo (A 'brick' of Federal .22lr, 550 rounds, is $18.00 at WalMart) Asimilar burst from my M&P 15A will cost me $7.50 in today's money.

.22lr is deadly accurate in a rifle out to 100 yards and can make a hole in ballistic gelatin at 250 yards. It can take small game and has taken deer.

A .22lr pistol is also good for hunting, defense, training and is very easy to suppress. My idea of a need to suppress gunfire is when you are hunting and you don't want to advertise your presence.

And finally, if the economy does collapse. ammo and most especially .22lr will be the new currency along with coffee, cigarettes, sugar and toilet paper. How much food would 50 rounds of .22lr buy you six months after the economy collapses. I don't know and i really don't want to find out but i suspect it will buy more than gold or silver will buy.

Next, I believe everyone needs two (three including the .22lr) pistols. A full sized pistol in a caliber greater than .380. This would be the fighting gun that you would carry after SHTF. I have always carried a .45 but have recently sold sall of them because 9mm combat ammunition is very good and 9mm training ammo is have the cost. I shoot a lot, I enjoy but I also know that being accurate with a firearm is directly related to constant practice. I can buy a heck of lot more 9mm for practice and for storage thaen i could foir amy other caliber so 9mm is my choice. My service/duty gun is a Smith M&P 9mm which is identical in feel to my M&P 22. So I can teach someone to shoot ny 9mm by using.22lr ammo and I can train much cheaper.

I also have a 9mm pocket gun. For me, it's a Kahr PM9. 9mm again for all the same reasons above and because I constantly vcan carry it and nobody knows it. Good fgor a backup or as a primary on a run to the store.

You also need a fighting rifle or "Main Battle Rifle". An MBR is your "go to" weapon. It has to be able to take down targets at whatever your greatest trange will be. For me, I believe 300 yards is plenty so I have an "M4gery", that is a clone of the military M4. It is an M&P 15A which is identical to my .22lr rifle. Great for hunting and personal defense. A hollow point 5.56 is a heavier bullet (77gr is good) will easily take down a deer. The military M855 steel penetrator 62 gr bullet is supposedly good out to 400 meters but that's a little iffy for me. But any rifle in a combat caliber is needed. a Mosin bought for $99.00 at Bud's Guns is accurate out to probably 500 meters. An AK is good to 400 and an SKS is probably good (with an optic) out to 600.

Quanity does not wipe out quality but don't neglect it. You need to buy as much ammo now for your main battle rifle as possible because after SHTF it will be too late. Buying cheap 7.62mmx39 Russian ammo at 15 cents per round will mean you can buy at lote more that 5.56 and it is every bit as good when it hits someone.

Finally, you need a shotgun for both hunting and defense. I have an Ithaca 37 Deerslayer because I first had one was back in 1966 in Vietnam (aboard my aircraft) and also because I carried one in a squad car for years. Mine has a 20" slug barrel on it normally but I also can excnahnge the barrel for a 28" with an improved cylinder as a choke.

Shotguns are great food providers and also great equalizers. You cnn calm a lot of situations down merely by jacking a round into the chamber. Even people who have never heard that sound before will recognize it. And God forbid, if you have to use one, they provide a very fast and final solution to any problem that pops up. Shotguns can provide birds for food as well as deer, elk or even bear. They will take a cow down as quickly as a man when using a slug.

That's what I am doing and what i have. I concentrate on four calibers; .22lr, 12 gauge, 9mm and 5.56mm. That's what I am buying now and only that. Every time i go to WalMart, I but=y another brick of .22lr. Every time my coin jar gets enough i it, I buy a case of 9mm NATO or 5.56mm M855. I buy all kinds of 12 gauge whenever it is on sale.

I have no idea if I will ever need all of this, but if not, my son and his wife will be prepared.

saeb
10-10-2011, 09:45 PM
Thanks, good common sense approach.

claymore
10-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Enjoyed reading your report. What do you think of an M-14 ?

Bud
10-11-2011, 11:04 PM
I trained with the M14 at Basic in 1965 at Fort Knox and then had one off and on in VN.

It is an absolutely great rifle and I would consider it the best all around fighting rifle there is.

But for me, here and now, I need to go for quantity. I need three main battle rifles (wife, son and me) and I need a lot of ammo. So I have got to got for the AR because of cost. I can buy two rounds of 5.56 for every round of 7.62mm and M1As from Springfield Armory absolutely hold their value and rarely come on the market for under $1,000.00. But ARs are running $700-800 right now (but not after (if/when) Obama gets re-elected.

rice paddy daddy
10-12-2011, 09:15 AM
Welcome home, Bud.
I did a tour in RVN, Quang Tri Province.
2 years, 8 months and 28 days of the Army was enough for me!
I also agree with your assesment of the M14. I qualified Expert twice, with two well worn rifles.
I received a crash course with the M16-A1 during POR training.
I've got a Springfield M1-A, but absolutely no desire to own an AR.

Bud
10-12-2011, 11:54 AM
rice paddy daddy

After my second stint with the Army, I was a military history researcher with the Fed governemnt.

I still have thousands of documents (Opeartions Reports, After Action Reports, etc) from the VN War and also from WW2 and the KW. Send me a PM with your unit in VN and I will see have I have yours. If I do, I can email a copy to you, they are all in digital format

flightorfight
10-18-2011, 10:34 PM
I use mostly same calibers as you but the guns are different. 10/22s and SKSs for rifles, Rugers and Beretta 92FS for sidearms, and Rem 870s for shotguns. One difference is i have a .357 revolver for every member of the family even though the wife only shoots 38s through hers.

thedreamers
10-19-2011, 05:44 PM
38s still make a nice hole.

overbore
10-19-2011, 11:32 PM
Bud, I feel you pain-- and then some as I enlisted in 1956--- out in 66. My mirror is broke as a 39 yer old looks in but 76 year old fart looks back at me---how in heck did that happen?????

For your family and budget, have a long hard look a the AK-74 and the low cost of Rusky tumbling rounds that do what our old 1-12 M-16's once did; tumble and tear up the "target"; mild recoil and reliable as dirt. I use surplus German 7.62's to keep the price down .Bullet "fracures" after penetration----- Use Ammo Engine to find the lowest prices. Laus Deo
overbore

Bud
10-24-2011, 11:05 PM
You know, there is still plenty of M193 ammo available. Israeli Military Industries import a lot if Israelu Derfense Force ammo, almost always M193 and it is made to US specs.

The other reason I want to keep to just a couple of calibers is that the need to replenish ammo will be much easier if it is the most common calibers.

P2L
10-25-2011, 12:01 AM
Well thought out post and system. Mine is similar but different. I have the .22 LR only in the form of a Remington 597, and old Marlin Bolt Action. A Ruger Super Single Six with both LR and magnum cylinders for my. 22 handgun. Block 22 and 23 for center fire pistol in .40SW, it costs a little more then the 9mm but in my opinion is the best compromise between 9mm and. 45ACP. Plus it is becoming the most popular Leo round out there so it is readily available. My MBR is a Smith and Wesson M&P 15A also with a couple of minor mods.just a hogue grip and an Aimpoint and single point sling attachment. My shotgun is a Remington 870 tactical with factory extended magazine and ghost ring sight. I keep a good selection of rounds for the shotgun but primarily keep Winchester pdx-1 for it as a defensive weapon.

I couldnt agree more with you as to design and effectiveness of a weapon system design. I also have a nice collection of hunting firearms, and have several weapons set aside for my family.

Good post. Take care up there in the north, from someone down here south of I-80.

klik
11-09-2011, 10:31 PM
I skip the belt gun, the pocket gun is plenty. I skip the 22 rifle, cause the Ciener .22 unit for the AR is plenty. The shotgun is pointless, really. I can carry a couple of lw, compact pistols, like the Keltec Pf9, and another one with the Twisted Industries .22 unit mounted on its frame, the AR and the 3/4 lb .22 unit. How to get any benefit from a gun you aint got with you when you need it, eh?

bryanj58
02-28-2012, 11:51 PM
Well done Bud
I agree with your thoughts 100%. I would like to add one more reason to go with 9mm over 45 ACP, because 12 rounds are better then 8.
I also agree with an AR as your battle rifle. My reason is weight and recoil. I need something both me and my wife are comfortable shooting.
Thanks for a well thought out thread.

Climber
03-03-2012, 04:42 PM
Wow Bud, nearly identical to my small armory. I have Ruger 10/22 and Mark II. I have a Smith in .40 and a XD Sub Compact in .40. I have a Mossberg 12 in 3 1/2 Mag. I have not aquired an AR/AK/SKS as of yet. I have a long distance gun. It's a Howa 1500. 308 Heavy Barrel. Houge OD Green stock, Harris Bipod. Nikon 4-16 x 50 Mil-dot Tac scope. I have so much invested in it that I haven't had the extra to purchase a battle type rifle.

If I had to chose 3 guns though it would be my Mark, XD and the Mossberg. Can't deal beyond 75 yds but under 75, I can't make myself think I could be better armed. The 3 1/2 mag in 00 buck is 18 pellets. With the extention it will hold 7 total rounds. That's 126 .33 cal pellets in one loading. Out to 50-65 yards it's hard to be better armed IMHO. The Mark is my meat getter and the xd is the hideout gun.

No military experince, BTW thanks for yours! Smoe LEO work a fews years ago.

What I have will have to do for now.

Jimmy