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kilogulf59
06-30-2012, 04:02 PM
An interesting video from the man himself...here's the book as well Official Kubotan Techniques - Kubota and Peters https://dc243.4shared.com/download/ZGCxTG7d/Official_Kubotan_Techniques_-_.pdf


http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/42/sokekubotatakayuki.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/sokekubotatakayuki.jpg/)
Soke Takayuki Kubota
10th Dan Gosoku Ryu
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Note: most of these techniques can work with a Mini-Maglite...a "PC" Kubotan...


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Takayuki Kubota's Kubotan and How To Use It...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNtLS-hXpQ

Takayuki Kubota, born September 20, 1934) is a Japanese master of karate. He founded the Gosoku-ryu style of karate, and is the founder and president of the International Karate Association. Kubota holds the title of Sōke for his development of the Gosoku-ryū style of karate. He is also the inventor and patent-holder of the Kubotan self-defense key chain.

Kubota was a self-defense instructor for the Tokyo Police department in the 1950s, where he was noted for his expertise in practical karate. He has devoted his life to learning, creating, and teaching the application of self-defense techniques to military, law enforcement, and civilian personnel. He has earned black belt degrees in karate, judo, aikido, kendo, and iaido.

The Kubotan self-defense keychain is a close-quarter self-defense weapon developed by Takayuki Kubota. It is essentially a derivation of the yawara stick, usually 5.5 inches (14 cm) long and 0.56 inch (1.5 cm) in diameter, slightly thicker or the same size as a marker pen. Attached with a key ring for convenience and concealment, the Kubotan appears as an innocuous key fob to the untrained eye, although it may be considered an offensive weapon in some jurisdictions.

Apart from its size and shape, much of its usage is quite similar to the yawara stick. As with the yawara stick, the principal areas for attacks in self-defense include bony, fleshy and nerve targets such as knuckles, forearms, bridge of the nose, shins, stomach, solar plexus, spine, temple, ribs, groin, neck, eyes etc. The Kubotan is usually held in either an icepick grip (for hammerfist strikes) or forward grip (for stabbing and pressure point attacks).

Common uses include hardening the fist (fistload) for punching, attacking vulnerable parts of an assailant's body, and gaining leverage on an assailant's wrist, fingers and joints. With keys attached, it can also function as a flailing weapon. As a pressure point and pain compliance weapon it can attack any point a finger can, but with greater penetration because of the smaller surface area at the ends. For example, a law enforcement officer may wrap his arm around the suspect's neck while simultaneously digging the end of the Kubotan into the small of his back. The officer may also reach around the suspect's neck and underarm from behind and cause pain by digging the end of the Kubotan into the top of his pectoral muscle. One typical pain compliance technique is a wrist "gasket" lock in which the attacker's wrist is captured and sealed around with both hands and the body of the Kubotan laid across the radial bone. Downward squeezing pressure is then applied to the bone to take down the opponent. Its techniques are greatly linked to 'empty handed' martial arts techniques.

In the absence of the Kubotan (and similar weapons like the yawara stick and the koppo stick) improvised versions can be readily found and used in similar fashion. Since a Kubotan is just a rod of material any restrictive regulation would most likely be ambiguous and undefined due to the ability for any rod-shaped item to essentially be used in kubotan-like fashion. Thus, the Kubotan can be replaced by everyday items that can include hairbrushes, pens, magic markers, flashlights, sticks etc.

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Can Women Use the Kubotan or Will It Give Them a Hard Time?
By: Phil Washington

The kubotan is one of the most basic, no-frills types of self-defense weapon that is a favorite for women. Due to its design and size, the kubotan is lightweight, easy to carry and conceal. This makes it an ideal tool to bring anywhere because it doesn't attract a lot of attention. In spite of its small size, it can be a very effective weapon to use to bring down an attacker. However, a lot of women have concerns regarding the kubotan. Will they have a hard time using it?

The trouble with the kubotan
The kubotan is an elongated self-defense weapon that resembles a short, fat pen. Depending on its design, it could have round, tapered or sharp tips. Its main purpose is to increase the force of a punch or blow, which is why it is made of hard, durable material.

Unlike self-defense gadgets like tasers, the kubotan is most effective during hand-to-hand combat. For some women, this is not often an attractive idea because they may not be confident enough to actually use the weapon.

The key to using the kubotan
What women should keep in mind when using the kubotan is that it is not a magic weapon. You simply cannot rely on this small gadget to scare away an attacker once you whip it out of your purse or pocket. The kubotan is meant to be used as a weapon of attack -- that is, it has to hit the attacker in order to stop them or at least discourage them from physically harming you.

To use the kubotan, it has to be held firmly in the hand. During a strike or blow, the tips should be used to hit certain 'pressure points'. These include the solar plexus, the groin, lower back, back of the knees and ankles. These are areas of the body that are sensitive to pain. When used correctly, a strike from a kubotan can temporarily disable your opponent or even knock them out.

If you're having a hard time using the kubotan, it could be that you do not have the confidence or skills to utilize it for self-defense. Practice with the tool frequently. The more comfortable you are using it, the better you'll be. Once you learn how to use it effectively, you should be able to ensure your own safety and security without any problems.

Will material matter?
Older versions of the kubotan are made of wood. These days, however, manufacturers use different materials to produce this weapon. These include hard plastic, aluminum or even stainless steel. When it comes to effective self-defense, however, material may not be much of a concern, provided it is used with sufficient force and accuracy.

The kubotan is one of the most basic, no-frills types of self-defense weapon that is a favorite for women. Due to its design and size, the kubotan is lightweight, easy to carry and conceal. This makes it an ideal tool to bring anywhere because it doesn't attract a lot of attention. In spite of its small size, it can be a very effective weapon to use to bring down an attacker.

Kubotans can be good self-defense tools if you know how to use them well and if you've bought quality ones such as those from TBO-Tech.com.

Note: The content of this article solely conveys the opinion of its author, Phil Washington

Matt In Oklahoma
06-30-2012, 04:26 PM
Cool, didnt know he released the whole video

JUSTIFIED
07-01-2012, 07:33 PM
I read about this a couple of years ago. With the right training, it sure looks like it could be an effective pocket weapon. I remember reading about folks who improvised with writing pens or perhaps some object near to hand that's about the same dimensions. I can see how confidence would be a key factor when you're in close range(within reach)of someone else, especially when you don't know what they are capable of.

JUSTIFIED
07-01-2012, 07:39 PM
Went to that site and saw a nasty looking spiked kubotan keychain. With my luck I'd have it in my pocket, twist or bend wrong and the spikes would stab me in the leg!...chuckle...I'm putting it on my list of "soontobemines".

kilogulf59
07-02-2012, 07:20 AM
Just remember, it's a weapon...that's all...and if you don't train with it, don't carry one.

Matt In Oklahoma
07-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Just remember, it's a weapon...that's all...and if you don't train with it, don't carry one.
Agreed! It's an enhancer not a stand alone device and will not help just by owning one so train

JUSTIFIED
07-02-2012, 08:55 PM
Just remember, it's a weapon...that's all...and if you don't train with it, don't carry one.
Plan on it. It will one of a few choices I'll carry out and about. I just need to get past the packing/unpacking, moving hither and yon stage so I've got time to start concentrating on more of these things.

kilogulf59
07-03-2012, 11:46 AM
Remember you can use expedient weapons in place of the kubotan i.e. mini-Mag Light, a pen, even a small piece of wood or a 6-inch pipe nipple...

I prefer a blackjack but that's another story...

JUSTIFIED
07-03-2012, 09:04 PM
Remember you can use expedient weapons in place of the kubotan i.e. mini-Mag Light, a pen, even a small piece of wood or a 6-inch pipe nipple...

I prefer a blackjack but that's another story...
Kilo, I carry a blackjack in my workbag because I can't carry a gun on, or in, county equipment. I do have a few other various types of weapons on and around me though. I've even got a can of wasp spray that will shoot a fine stream up to 20 feet. If it hits anyone's eyes they will be in the emergency room to remedy it. Though it rarely happens there have been instances where county workers(in our county)have been threatened and attacked.

I watched some video demonstrations of how to use the kubotan last year and remember them also using a writing pen, small flashlight and even a folding pocket knife. I'm thinking if I had a pocket knife I'd use it as a knife and not a kubotan!...chuckle....I found the videos very informative showing how using this on nerves(pressure points)to be an effective defense.

BillM
07-04-2012, 11:54 AM
I have a Kubotan on my keys. I have had one since I was a Deputy Sheriff. It was an effective tool in controling a suspect or a prisoner.
If you get one, get the plain plastic original. You can legally carry it anywhere,( even on a plane). I gave my sister one and showed her how to use it and she took it with her on her trip to Europe. It was examined at lenght by airport security and emigration inspectors in several countrys but was never taken from her.

JUSTIFIED
07-04-2012, 02:23 PM
I have a Kubotan on my keys. I have had one since I was a Deputy Sheriff. It was an effective tool in controling a suspect or a prisoner.
If you get one, get the plain plastic original. You can legally carry it anywhere,( even on a plane). I gave my sister one and showed her how to use it and she took it with her on her trip to Europe. It was examined at lenght by airport security and emigration inspectors in several countrys but was never taken from her.
Good to know Bill. I'll remember that when I order one.

Matt In Oklahoma
07-04-2012, 03:09 PM
[QUOTE=BillM;42537]You can legally carry it anywhere,( even on a plane)QUOTE]

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#8

checked baggage only

Matt In Oklahoma
07-04-2012, 06:07 PM
Remember you can use expedient weapons in place of the kubotan i.e. mini-Mag Light, a pen, even a small piece of wood or a 6-inch pipe nipple...I prefer a blackjack but that's another story...

Kilo, I carry a blackjack in my workbag because I can't carry a gun on, or in, county equipment. I do have a few other various types of weapons on and around me though. I've even got a can of wasp spray that will shoot a fine stream up to 20 feet. If it hits anyone's eyes they will be in the emergency room to remedy it. Though it rarely happens there have been instances where county workers(in our county)have been threatened and attacked. I watched some video demonstrations of how to use the kubotan last year and remember them also using a writing pen, small flashlight and even a folding pocket knife. I'm thinking if I had a pocket knife I'd use it as a knife and not a kubotan!...chuckle....I found the videos very informative showing how using this on nerves(pressure points)to be an effective defense.

Ok lets talk about this before someone gets into trouble. I've brought this up before so here we go again. PRE SHTF get a CCW and stay legal.
For those who are from Okla: study this http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/Index.asp?ftdb=STOKST21&level=1

Blackjacks are not legal in most places, period. So if you smack a thug with one you might still go to jail. If you get caught with one you might still go to jail. Lawyers are going to have a heyday with you carrying a premedidated weapon of choice to injure their poor misunderstood client. Blackjacks are not legal on County equipment either and the punishment remains the same as for a gun, your fired if you use it or even get caught with it.
TITLE 21

JUSTIFIED
07-04-2012, 08:48 PM
[QUOTE=Matt In Oklahoma;42552]Ok lets talk about this before someone gets into trouble. I've brought this up before so here we go again. PRE SHTF get a CCW and stay legal.
For those who are from Okla: study this http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/Index.asp?ftdb=STOKST21&level=1

Blackjacks are not legal in most places, period. So if you smack a thug with one you might still go to jail. If you get caught with one you might still go to jail. Lawyers are going to have a heyday with you carrying a premedidated weapon of choice to injure their poor misunderstood client. Blackjacks are not legal on County equipment either and the punishment remains the same as for a gun, your fired if you use it or even get caught with it.
TITLE 21

JUSTIFIED
07-05-2012, 07:49 AM
I should add that though I feel I can defend myself against the average Joe there is always someone bigger, stronger, faster and smarter than me out there. Ok...maybe not smarter...chuckle...Point is, I feel I need to have a few weapons on me to even the odds if need be. Guess I need to do a bit of study on what's legal and what's not.

kilogulf59
07-05-2012, 10:02 AM
Why fight fair in the first place? I have no qualms using a weapon if my assailant is empty-handed...

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/6224/v555t6.jpg

Matt In Oklahoma
07-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Why fight fair in the first place? I have no qualms using a weapon if my assailant is empty-handed...
you should never fight fair unless it's a competition designed just for that but i just want everyone here to be able to go home after the interview and still be employed. Didnt mean to be a d... but i am sometimes, take it as passion rather than total jerk attitude please. If a feller was to knock in someones head with a 3lb ball ping that rides on the road grater after said thug was to hassle hard working county guy doing his job just cause he got dust on stupids truck or if a minimag light that one carried in his pocket, to check engines and such, was used like a kubotan to hurt more than the thugs feelings well then nothing would never be said most likely by neither law nor boss but having a weapon that is illegal in all ways, shapes and form leaves little choice in anyones decisions and makes you the badguy as well in the publics mind. Don't put them in that position, instead make'em laugh when the DA/AUSA reads the report that says snotnose BG got beatup by hardworkin GG for being stupid in a no stupid zone with a common tool.

JUSTIFIED
07-05-2012, 07:17 PM
you should never fight fair unless it's a competition designed just for that but i just want everyone here to be able to go home after the interview and still be employed. Didnt mean to be a d... but i am sometimes, take it as passion rather than total jerk attitude please. If a feller was to knock in someones head with a 3lb ball ping that rides on the road grater after said thug was to hassle hard working county guy doing his job just cause he got dust on stupids truck or if a minimag light that one carried in his pocket, to check engines and such, was used like a kubotan to hurt more than the thugs feelings well then nothing would never be said most likely by neither law nor boss but having a weapon that is illegal in all ways, shapes and form leaves little choice in anyones decisions and makes you the badguy as well in the publics mind. Don't put them in that position, instead make'em laugh when the DA/AUSA reads the report that says snotnose BG got beatup by hardworkin GG for being stupid in a no stupid zone with a common tool.
Matt I didn't take anything personal. I know you guys have everybody's best interest in mind and I'm here to learn. It's a running joke at work that once in a while when I make a facetious remark one of the guys will say, jokingly, "Wow Kab that's a mean thing to say! You're an a_ _hole!" To which my reply is, "well at least I'm a well meaning a_ _ hole!"...chuckle...


Well, I do have a large hammer, a pocket knife, a couple of writing pens(kubotan alternative), some wooden stakes if I'm attacked by a vampire and if that doesn't work I'll bore them with political philosophy!...chuckle....

kilogulf59
07-06-2012, 08:15 AM
Woah...settle down...we're all on the same team here...

FWIW: I'll use whatever I have to survive...and walk away if possible. Remember, you have to be alive to be in trouble ;)

Matt In Oklahoma
07-06-2012, 09:14 AM
aww were all good big camo clad virtual hugs n back slaps for everyone

kilogulf59
07-06-2012, 11:32 AM
I'm choking on the virtual warmth and sincerity... :)

Grand58742
07-06-2012, 12:14 PM
Let's keep it professional on this topic. No need for snarky comments. Both sides are correct. Anything can be used as a weapon if utilized correctly. That being said, the legalities of using some objects can call serious attention to one's self when being questioned by LEOs about the incident. Matt is correct in saying a blackjack or can of was spray might not be the best option to consider for self defense.

As KG is correct as well Don't fight to fight fair, fight to win. And the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Learn to utilize whatever tool you happen to have available at the time of incident, be it a knife, kubaton, firearm, Leatherman Micra, pen, newspaper (that's a weapon and a half when folded correctly lol) or whatever. And let training take over. And that's honestly the core problem training. I'd say 95% of the kubatons I see out there are hanging from key rings and used as key flails only. Most people do not realize they have far more potential than just raking someone's eyes. And how many people that actually carry them are conditioned to grab it first thing instead of freezing up and wishing they were on a beach in Tahiti? Training is the key to a proper defense and using whatever weapons (albeit makeshift like the aforementioned ball-peen hammer) they have on hand and can be of less risk of questioning later on.

It's far easier to explain why you might have said hammer in your car (I was working at a friend's house and I keep forgetting to take it out) than it is to explain away a blackjack or sap. Same reason I give with carrying baseball bats. Love to see those in trunks of cars. "I play softball" is a common excuse to which I reply in my best verbal judo "So you are saying there is a January league in Oklahoma City?" But a hammer (as an LEO) I would potentially overlook as being a "common ordinary item" that could potentially be a weapon, but is not categorized as such.

So again, a kubaton can be easily explained away, especially by the fairer sex by "My Daddy wants me to carry it because he feels I'm helpless" said with a laugh. A blackjack? Not so much. Wasp spray? Certainly not enough to the satisfaction of LEOs on a routine traffic stop and I'm positive a DA will look at that and wonder why a person decided to use wasp spray (which has in fact been shown not to work that well if at all) on a perp.

So training is the key to all this and we need to take advantage of it.

kilogulf59
07-06-2012, 12:32 PM
It can also be a key fob...actually works great for one too...instead on a pile of keys in your pocket, just slide the Kubotan IWB...

If you carry a bat in the car put an old ball and glove in there, a hand axe is OK on a tool belt but separate it is a no-no. A nightstick is a weapon however, the butt end of a pool cue stick is not IF the front half is in the car. A 6-cell Mag-light is a flashlight, plain and simple.

As far as chemical (un)weapons are concerned, I'm not sure how'd you fair with wasp spray or brake cleaner...but really, any lawyer can take care of this as well...

I, myself, was never concerned with these trivialities. I do what I deem best for me and mine and that's it. Why should I get ulcers over nothing when the criminals don't?

JUSTIFIED
07-06-2012, 09:41 PM
Let's keep it professional on this topic. No need for snarky comments. Both sides are correct. Anything can be used as a weapon if utilized correctly. That being said, the legalities of using some objects can call serious attention to one's self when being questioned by LEOs about the incident. Matt is correct in saying a blackjack or can of was spray might not be the best option to consider for self defense.

As KG is correct as well Don't fight to fight fair, fight to win. And the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Learn to utilize whatever tool you happen to have available at the time of incident, be it a knife, kubaton, firearm, Leatherman Micra, pen, newspaper (that's a weapon and a half when folded correctly lol) or whatever. And let training take over. And that's honestly the core problem training. I'd say 95% of the kubatons I see out there are hanging from key rings and used as key flails only. Most people do not realize they have far more potential than just raking someone's eyes. And how many people that actually carry them are conditioned to grab it first thing instead of freezing up and wishing they were on a beach in Tahiti? Training is the key to a proper defense and using whatever weapons (albeit makeshift like the aforementioned ball-peen hammer) they have on hand and can be of less risk of questioning later on.

It's far easier to explain why you might have said hammer in your car (I was working at a friend's house and I keep forgetting to take it out) than it is to explain away a blackjack or sap. Same reason I give with carrying baseball bats. Love to see those in trunks of cars. "I play softball" is a common excuse to which I reply in my best verbal judo "So you are saying there is a January league in Oklahoma City?" But a hammer (as an LEO) I would potentially overlook as being a "common ordinary item" that could potentially be a weapon, but is not categorized as such.

So again, a kubaton can be easily explained away, especially by the fairer sex by "My Daddy wants me to carry it because he feels I'm helpless" said with a laugh. A blackjack? Not so much. Wasp spray? Certainly not enough to the satisfaction of LEOs on a routine traffic stop and I'm positive a DA will look at that and wonder why a person decided to use wasp spray (which has in fact been shown not to work that well if at all) on a perp.

So training is the key to all this and we need to take advantage of it.
Grand, my comments weren't meant to be snarky and I don't think Matt's were either. I was being serious about what the guys say about me at work. It's a running joke there and I was saying it in a joking manner here, directed at me, and certainly not Matt. Sorry if anyone took it otherwise.

JUSTIFIED
07-06-2012, 09:41 PM
I'm choking on the virtual warmth and sincerity... :)
Easy trigger! Next thing, you'll be tearing up and slobbering all over yourself! LOL

JUSTIFIED
07-06-2012, 09:44 PM
aww were all good big camo clad virtual hugs n back slaps for everyone
Matt, as I said above, those comments had to do with me and not you. Hope you didn't take them wrong. Now Kilo seems to think we're going to be huggin' and sloberin' all over each other and as much as I like you that just aintagonnahappen!...chuckle.....

Grand58742
07-07-2012, 12:25 AM
Grand, my comments weren't meant to be snarky and I don't think Matt's were either. I was being serious about what the guys say about me at work. It's a running joke there and I was saying it in a joking manner here, directed at me, and certainly not Matt. Sorry if anyone took it otherwise.

I didn't aim that at anyone in particular. Just that the thread was taking on a potentially bad turn and we all need to bring it back into focus.

JUSTIFIED
07-07-2012, 07:30 AM
Let's keep it professional on this topic. No need for snarky comments. Both sides are correct. Anything can be used as a weapon if utilized correctly. That being said, the legalities of using some objects can call serious attention to one's self when being questioned by LEOs about the incident. Matt is correct in saying a blackjack or can of was spray might not be the best option to consider for self defense.

As KG is correct as well Don't fight to fight fair, fight to win. And the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Learn to utilize whatever tool you happen to have available at the time of incident, be it a knife, kubaton, firearm, Leatherman Micra, pen, newspaper (that's a weapon and a half when folded correctly lol) or whatever. And let training take over. And that's honestly the core problem training. I'd say 95% of the kubatons I see out there are hanging from key rings and used as key flails only. Most people do not realize they have far more potential than just raking someone's eyes. And how many people that actually carry them are conditioned to grab it first thing instead of freezing up and wishing they were on a beach in Tahiti? Training is the key to a proper defense and using whatever weapons (albeit makeshift like the aforementioned ball-peen hammer) they have on hand and can be of less risk of questioning later on.

It's far easier to explain why you might have said hammer in your car (I was working at a friend's house and I keep forgetting to take it out) than it is to explain away a blackjack or sap. Same reason I give with carrying baseball bats. Love to see those in trunks of cars. "I play softball" is a common excuse to which I reply in my best verbal judo "So you are saying there is a January league in Oklahoma City?" But a hammer (as an LEO) I would potentially overlook as being a "common ordinary item" that could potentially be a weapon, but is not categorized as such.

So again, a kubaton can be easily explained away, especially by the fairer sex by "My Daddy wants me to carry it because he feels I'm helpless" said with a laugh. A blackjack? Not so much. Wasp spray? Certainly not enough to the satisfaction of LEOs on a routine traffic stop and I'm positive a DA will look at that and wonder why a person decided to use wasp spray (which has in fact been shown not to work that well if at all) on a perp.

So training is the key to all this and we need to take advantage of it.
So you're saying the weighted axe handle I keep in my car with the end sharpened to a point so I can use it as a club or a spear may not be explainable?....chuckle...

Your point about training is right. Whether we're talking about self defense, prepping, or whatever, it's a problem for Patriot Lady and me. We don't socialize much and we're not right next door to likeminded folks we can get together with easily.

JUSTIFIED
07-07-2012, 08:18 AM
I didn't aim that at anyone in particular. Just that the thread was taking on a potentially bad turn and we all need to bring it back into focus.
Like I told Matt, I get to typing (talking) on this computer and forget we're not sitting around together where we can see each other's expressions and hear each other's tone of voice. My bad.

1Admin
07-07-2012, 09:10 AM
I get the whole "don't fight fair" thing but honestly, some of the most common stuff that people act like will end the fight DOESN'T.

I've been kicked in the nuts more than a few times, mostly by accident. It sucks but you keep fighting.
I've had beer bottles busted on and bounced off my nogging. It sucks but you keep fighting.
I've had limbs popped. It sucks but you can keep fighting.

Don't expect the person to go "OK I had enough" and quit right after the "terrible" roshambo (kick in the nuts) you give him. To be honest, any time that sort of thing happened, I just fought harder. Even in training when it's been " Oh shoot! Sorry man" you usually just hold the submission a little longer after that or hit just a little harder ;)

kilogulf59
07-07-2012, 09:28 AM
Many variables on the infamous groin kick/knee...the eyes are a much better and preferred target...

JUSTIFIED
07-07-2012, 10:33 AM
I get the whole "don't fight fair" thing but honestly, some of the most common stuff that people act like will end the fight DOESN'T.

I've been kicked in the nuts more than a few times, mostly by accident. It sucks but you keep fighting.
I've had beer bottles busted on and bounced off my nogging. It sucks but you keep fighting.
I've had limbs popped. It sucks but you can keep fighting.

Don't expect the person to go "OK I had enough" and quit right after the "terrible" roshambo (kick in the nuts) you give him. To be honest, any time that sort of thing happened, I just fought harder. Even in training when it's been " Oh shoot! Sorry man" you usually just hold the submission a little longer after that or hit just a little harder ;)
I want you as a bodyguard if you can take that kind of punishment!...chuckle...

I guess when we're out and about in public or work in a place where certain weapons are not allowed we have to be careful about what we use. "Fair" will be the last thing on my mind. That's for Hollywood. I'm going to try to permantly drop my attacker with my first move. I'm not 20 anymore and doubt I'd last long in an out and out fight. Having said this, I've not been in many fights, and in a couple of those I managed to stop the person without hurting anything more than his pride. I've managed to sidestep most altercations by reasoning with the other "adult".

If the shtf and all the sudden it's teotwawki then all bets are off. I'll use the most effective weapon to protect my family no matter what it is. Adding to Grand's thoughts, the average Joe isn't geared to react like a SEAL incountry and I'm sure one of the biggest problems, besides not being competant with your weapon, is freezing up at a critical moment. That's where practice is important, and I am one that needs it.