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  1. #1

    Charity/barter within the group dynamic

    This came up on Frugals and I've added more to my response. The question involved "trading" within 'the group" and I wasn't sure what the OP meant since so many call things that are not survival groups "groups."

    Within a true "group" i.e, not this BS ad hoc group of sheeple in your subdivision- aka the "I'll be the savior the subdivision" FANTASY, it should be more LIKE (notice that word) sharing versus bartering amongst honest to goodness been around group members.

    Again, talking about a real survival group here.

    You have to look out for your brothers and sisters and they need to look out for you.


    That does not mean giving cart blanche. Let's say Ted is part of my crew. Ted shows up at the retreat with not much more than the clothes on his back. Somehow he managed to dig up an old crusty Mosin he buried along the way. THAT'S IT, that's all he has.

    Meanwhile I -or another party- has a couple extra AK's sitting on the rack. Does it behoove me to "barter" with Ted for an AK for him? No. Now I might give him the AK with the caveat that "I might want that back if this turns out to be a short term thing, but for now, it's yours."

    Why does it behoove "me" to do that?

    Cause I don't want Ted covering my back with a musket. Neither does anyone else in the crew. More than likely another member would step forward and say "hey look, here's my old AK chest rig and a couple mags", and another "Ted, here's 500 rounds and a couple more mags."

    Why would you do this this way? Cause Ted is really a part of your crew, which after TSHTF is going to be basically family. AND- for all the completely self centered types- it benefits YOU to have someone in the crew that's been properly trained to be properly armed.

    Again, the above should be read with the assumption that we are: 1. talking about a real group, i.e, put together ahead of time, knowing each other for years, train with each other, work with each other, trust each other. 2. That Ted was not slack arsing for years before something happened with his preps. In other words, if Ted had three jet skis, a jacuzzi in every room of the house, and Ipad, a BMW, etc. but claimed he didn't have money for preps.... then the story is different. Ted is a frickin leech in that case.

    Also, note that these are NEEDS not WANTS. Ted wanting a better room in the team house from someone that has seniority there that's had a room for five more years is a much different thing unless Ted has 14 chit'ren to house and the other guy has none.

    The problem people in real groups in this regard generally fall into one of these categories-

    1. The "takers"- they are there 110% for themselves. Very easy to spot cause although they can TALK a good game, their "game" revolves completely around themselves. Look for them to always put themselves first, what they want to do first, over any needs of the group. Sometimes they are very clever in this regard and enlist the help of dimwits that can't see past their BS to make an issue wherein they benefit the most a bigger deal for the sake of causing drama. They are much like the liberals we all HATE in their tactics. Often times if they are smooth, they will give away TRINKETS and other items of little value or use in an effort to gain trust and favor with the dimwitted types that don't understand group dynamics well and don't see these people for what they are.

    2. The "Spongers"- these are the ones that are the first to have their hands out whenever someone says something to the effect of "hey I got some extra blah blah blah, does anyone want one?" And it's rarely ever ONE that they take. Same goes for free training, when it's time to train and get something that benefits THEM directly, oh you can bet they are there with bells on. When it's time to work for the benefit of the group, they are absent, leaning on a shovel like they are part of a DOT work crew or dragging an hour job out to most of the day. Don't kid yourself, people notice this.

    3. The last category are the ones most people in the group worry about but rarely ever say anything about. Suffice to say the group leader WILL hear about people's concerns with these types. They are the slackers. You know the type, they say they are all about preparedness but in 5 years of hanging around they have almost nothing to show for their time. For some it's because group activities mean little more than social interaction. For others, they are just LAZY. I have yet to meet ANY that had the honest to goodness excuse of not being able to afford to put up some rice and beans, a little ammo, etc. Quite the contrary, it's usually all song and dance about "it must be nice" to have such and such whereas in reality others have scrimped and saved for, but they are unwilling to discipline themselves to do the same thing. Instead of having joy in the fact that another group member is in a good position logistically, they tend to get ENVIOUS of the new piece of gear, training they went to, food stocks they have, etc. Again, I have NEVER met anyone that could not budget $20. or so a month to prep, the overriding problem is usually LAZINESS. For some, they figure the "umbrella" of protection the group gives them allows them to slack. The REALITY of the situation is that- after 5 years and little accomplished in the way of preps, the other group members start WORRYING ABOUT THEM and to be honest, start questioning their sincerity. We can all act like we are "above" that but that's the reality of what starts happening.

    A good group will have BACKUPS for things like Ted showing up with nothing more than the clothes on his back. However in the same token, Ted should not do nothing or little to prep because of this.

    Above all, individuals should strive to always be INDEPENDENT yet INTERdependent with the group. What does that mean? It means you CAN stand on your own but you can also be INTERdependent on others. This means you do not become a burden to the group intentionally. An "intentional burden" to the group is someone who:
    1. Drags butt on training or doesn't train- he won't be up to speed with the group.
    2. Doesn't prep to the extent he can- he looks at 10 buckets of food and thinks he's done, in reality he's just getting started.
    3. Let's their health go. This means more than just being fat. Sometimes people that are heavy more than take care of their responsibilities. This also means things like taking responsibility for your own health, fitness, etc. People should not be on anti depressants, unnecessary meds. Withdrawal symptoms of someone of these drugs are pretty ugly and the person will be essentially worthless to the group as they get over the "haze" they have while on anti depressants, etc. Learn to question everything. Just because your doc said you "need" Prozac doesn't make it so. Wean yourself off this kind of crap ahead of time. People that are zombie like are little good now or after something happens.
    Above all, individuals must strive to be BENEFICIAL to the group. Just having "another body" there isn't always worth the EFFORT the group puts forth for the person- don't kid yourself. You should WANT to be needed, you should WANT to work, you should WANT to share your skills and teach others. This is the equivalant of what is called "job security" in the working world.
    Finally, understand that your NOT special.... I don't care what your Mom told you or how the administrators at your elementary school classified you LOL. You functioning as part of the group IS "special." You as a selfish individual acting in a selfish manner out just for yourself is not "special." Put the group first and yourself second.

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    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed..."

  2. #2
    CAPSTONE MEMBER 610Alpha's Avatar
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    I think I have 9 buckets...lol...but I do have some bandaids and water filters and other supplies so I hope that makes up for me not having 10.

    The way you keep on about the neighborhood savior I would think you have run into a few of these types... LOL

    Like you said if it is a "REAL" group its not bartering it is family. We all have/had friends that are/were closer to us than family and I believe that in a true group this would be the case. The part I need to work on more is finding the like minded people that my family can gel with to create such a group. I think I need to relisten to some podcasts about groups...need to put some real effort in this area.
    Last edited by 610Alpha; 10-02-2012 at 09:10 AM. Reason: added more
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  3. #3
    Mustache Afficianado WiseOwl's Avatar
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    Good post man.

    I am a natural hoarder of odds and ends so I keep a lotta stuff for myself because I never know if I will need it. But it has to have "some" sort of future use. But, if anyone, group or not needed it, I wouldnt mind giving it away or trading for something. I think in the Rawles world "if" I was part of a group, whatever I had to spare I would share. As long as it didnt put me or my family's' life in danger. If I had a group or was in a group, I would be the one that had enough for myself, skills to contribute or at least something to bring to the table but wouldnt be a moocher. I have said before, in a pre PAW scenario, I would do what it took to earn trust in a group that allowed me and my family to be a part of. Might not have the $$ or time to train constantly but dangit I would give as much effort as possible. I always pride myself on being the good friend that can be counted on to my good friends, which have narrowed to less than 20 people. I have always believed in earn your keep, regardless of if its in a group, at work or on a basketball court. Work hard, respect fellow man and you will be treated the same.
    You know what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like this?

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