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  1. #1

    Cheap White Phosphor PVS14 units!!!

    Many of you have asked about White Phosphor night vision tubes. Till recently WP tubes have been excessively high priced when purchased from ITT/Harris or L3, hence the close to $4,000. price tag on various WP PVS14s.

    Photonis, a European tube manufacturer has been bringing in White Phosphor tubes that are a good bit cheaper than the Harris or L3 tubes.

    An important thing to note-
    Due to the way they are manufactured using a different process and because they do not fall under the US "generations" classification system- The Photonis tubes are not true 3rd generation tubes. You may see specifications as high or nearly as high as 3rd generation tubes, the Photonis tubes are not true 3rd gen.

    Just like with Harris and L3 tubes, their is a great variance in what to expect in different grades of the Photonis tubes. Be sure you read item descriptions well and ask if you have any questions relating to this.

    Also like with a lot of Night vision, there are various flavors of units out there and quality of build varies from some jamoke playing builder in his garage to high quality units with warranties coming from reputable manufacturers. Again, something to “research” and ask about before making a buying purchase.

    All things considered, being able to get into a White Phosphor PVS14 for around $2,800 is a great thing, but again, be sure what you are buying. Many dealers have not been very circumspect with their descriptions of these Photonis tubes, most not even telling the truth that they are not true 3rd gen units.

    We (JRH Enterprises) are carrying PVS14 units with Photonis ECHO spec tubes.


    https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photo...14ECHOspec.htm

    3/19 Update/edit- some time back we stopped carrying the lesser grade tube and ONLY carry the higher graded ECHO spec tube now. We are seeing some EXCELLENT specification numbers on these units, WAY ABOVE the minimums listed. See list below for some of them. I will try to keep the thread here updated with current numbers, suffice to say this remains THE BEST VALUE IN WHITE PHOSPHOR NIGHT VISION in the market!!!

    If you have any questions about these units, please feel free to call or email us
    robert@jrhenterprises.com
    912.379.9441 or 912.375.1480
    Last edited by Lowdown3; 03-07-2019 at 10:23 AM. Reason: update

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  2. #2
    Photonis14wp.jpg

    Pretty nice for the price boys!!!

    These just started shipping-

    Photonis WHITE PHOSPHOR tube PVS14 with 10 year warranty

    Specifications-

    FOM 2202
    Resolution 69
    Signal to noise ratio- 31.91
    Halo .70

    One blem zone 3 (outer band)

    This unit is awesome for the price!!!

    I have long told people I don't think White Phosphor is worth the $1,000. difference in price. Well NOW, you can get a high quality WHITE PHOSPHOR tube for around the same price as a green tube HP+

    I'm hooked on PHOTONIS!!!


    https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photo...14ECHOspec.htm

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  3. #3
    The Photonis WHITE PHOSPHOR ECHO spec PVS14s with 10 year warranty have been selling well the last couple months since they were released.

    We are seeing excellent specifications on these units. Here is a sampling-

    FW in AL got a unit with 67 lp, SN of 28.44 EBI of .10

    WW in CA got a unit with 67 lp, SN of 31.67 EBI of .14

    JH in WA got a unit with 68 lp, SN of 29.39 EBI of .23

    MD in NC got a unit with 67 lp, SN of 30.32 EBI of .17

    PD in FL got a unit with 68 lp, SN of 31.08 EBI of 0.08

    JF in MN got a unit with 69 lp, SN of 28.15 EBI of 0.04

    JF in MN got a 2nd unit with 68lp, SN of 27.4 EBI of 0.20

    SF in MD got a unit with 68lp, SN of 31.43 EBI of 0.25

    DI in HI got a unit with 67lp, SN of 31.13 EBI of 0.15

    JT in TX got a unit with 68lp, SN of 28.84 EBI of 0.10

    JM in TX got a unit with 66lp, SN of 30.57 EBI of 0.13

    IP in RI got a unit with 65lp, SN of 31.11 EBI of 0.11

    RJ in FL got a unit with 68lp, SN of 30.14 EBI of 0.11

    PB in PA got a unit with 67lp, SN of 28.67 EBI of 0.12


    Since the PHOTONIS tubes are made in the Netherlands, they don't technically fall under the US "generation" classification, BUT these number are better than most 3rd generation US units!!! And the price can't be beat at $2799. for the ECHO spec model WITH 10 year warranty!!!

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  4. #4
    Cutting through some MARKETING HYPE-

    Several customers asked us about the comments someone made claiming that

    ECHO spec tubes don't see out of band."
    We went RIGHT TO THE SOURCE to get real answers on this-

    Thursday 1/24 at the Photonis booth at SHOT Show in Vegas.

    Discussion with:
    James Brennan, Vice President, Night Vision and Digital Vision Photonis Defense
    Ben Bethke, Director, Ground Forces Sales and Support Photonis Night Vision
    Raquel Ortega, Ph.d, Executive Director, Innovation and Digital Vision Sales

    Robert (JRH)- "So someone online claims that the Photonis ECHO spec tubes do not operate out of band like the INTENS models do, is that true?"

    James Brennan- "No, the ECHO spec tubes operate the same out of band as the INTENS."

    Robert (JRH)- "What about any low light issues with the ECHO spec tubes?"

    James Brennan- "The ECHO spec tubes are tubes that for whatever reason, blemishes, etc. did not make the cut for INTENS rating, other than that they are the same."

    Robert (JRH)- "So just like ITT/Harris and L3 have "grades" of tubes, the ECHO spec designation is simply the GRADE of the tube but will otherwise operate the same out of band as well as in lowlight?"

    James Brennan- "Yes."

    Ms. Ortega confirmed this also and Mr. Bethke who was talking with another customer came in at the end, we went over the entire conversation again for his benefit and he agreed with Mr. Brennan and Ms. Ortega on this as well.

    So that should more than clear up any (created) confusion on this subject!!!

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  5. #5
    To be crystal clear here, we primarily sell NV units with Harris tubes, that makes up the bulk of what we sell and will likely remain so. However we also offer some units with L3 tubes and the customer is always welcome to request said tubes.

    Photonis has also entered the marketplace and offers some great values in tubes, especially in White Phosphor tubes.

    However there has been a lot of confusion (?) relating to the ECHO grade of Photonis tubes.

    As someone who has been in business for 27 years now, I always strive to find out answers for customers as best I can. And there has been a lot of questions regarding some confusion on the ECHO grade of Photonis tubes. I believe some of this is created confusion, but let's just call it confusion never the less.

    So when we went to SHOT Show last month we spent some time talking with three high ups from Photonis. My goal was to get some SOLID answers to questions customers have been asking about these units and to clear up some of the confusion related to these tubes.

    Here is the transcript from another thread covering the discussion-

    Thursday 1/24 at the Photonis booth at SHOT Show in Vegas.
    Discussion with:
    James Brennan, Vice President, Night Vision and Digital Vision Photonis Defense
    Ben Bethke, Director, Ground Forces Sales and Support Photonis Night Vision
    Raquel Ortega, Ph.d, Executive Director, Innovation and Digital Vision Sales

    Robert (JRH)- "So someone online claims that the Photonis ECHO spec tubes do not operate out of band like the INTENS models do, is that true?"

    James Brennan- "No, the ECHO spec tubes operate the same out of band as the INTENS."

    Robert (JRH)- "What about any low light issues with the ECHO spec tubes?"

    James Brennan- "The ECHO spec tubes are tubes that for whatever reason, blemishes, etc. did not make the cut for INTENS rating, other than that they are the same."

    Robert (JRH)- "So just like ITT/Harris and L3 have "grades" of tubes, the ECHO spec designation is simply the GRADE of the tube but will otherwise operate the same out of band as well as in lowlight?"

    James Brennan- "Yes."

    Ms. Ortega confirmed this also and Mr. Bethke who was talking with another customer came in at the end, we went over the entire conversation again for his benefit and he agreed with Mr. Brennan and Ms. Ortega on this as well.


    Just today I had another question from an AR15.com member asking me if Photonis "tinkered with" ECHO spec tubes to somehow make them less efficient. Why they would do that I'm not sure??? Really makes no sense for a company to lessen the value of their product.... but the person asked so I wanted to be sure to give him the correct answer.

    So today I emailed Photonis and here is the transcript from that.


    Robert Henry

    12:53 PM (3 hours ago)

    to j.brennan, r.ortega, b.bethke, Robert

    I spoke with all three of you at SHOT Show on the 24th around 9am and I asked you a few questions about the ECHO spec tubes. You all were very helpful in providing clarification on the ECHO spec tube as far as stating that they do operate out of band the same as the INTENS models do. I appreciate your help in that matter.

    We have been selling a lot of Photonis ECHO spec tubes in PVS14's so these questions have come up regularly and a new one has just now also. I figured I would ask the experts again! When you have time please answer the following questions-

    1. On the ECHO spec tubes, you all had previously confirmed at SHOT Show that they do operate out of band the same as INTENS tubes and they were simply tubes that for whatever reason- lower specifications or more blemishes simply did not make the cut for the INTENS classification.

    The question has been asked if any tinkering is done by Photonis on the ECHO spec tubes to make them not perform out of band or not perform as well out of band as the INTENS models?

    I realize you all already answered this question in a round about way, but you know how consumers are and evidently someone has spread the rumor that the ECHO spec tubes are somehow hobbled by Photonis into operating less effectively as the INTENS tubes.

    2. Are you aware of any private companies or organizations that have tested this and sent their findings to you?

    For what it's worth, both I and many, many customer have been extremely impressed with the ECHO spec tubes and I believe they offer the best value in White Phosphor now in the U.S.

    I appreciate your time and help in this matter.
    So here is the reply I received just a little while ago-


    Sean Kirk

    2:48 PM (1 hour ago)

    to me, James, Ben, Bill

    Hi Robert:

    Hope all is good with you. Thanks for your inquiry. I will attempt answer your questions. As an aside; I am including Bill Grube on this email just to keep everyone in the loop.

    That said, we are aware of the AR15.com trolls making unsubstantiated claims about the ECHO tubes. I can only assume that this is from people that have put their allegiances in the camps of "other" tube manufacturers and are threatened by the value of the echo tube in the US. To be perfectly honest, we try and stay out of that fray. People are going to say what they want to say and frankly we don't see that as much of a threat.

    On the question of ECHO. They are not "hobbled" or "dumbed down" in any way. We do not market ECHO tubes as 4G (formerly INTENS) fallouts for obvious reasons. We market them as a commercial alternative to 4G and OOB capability is a function of the physical properties of PHOTONIS' hybrid photocathode. We do not remove nor is it possible to remove the OOB detection capability.

    However, I will say that I find it a bit odd that any in the commercial market space could even comment about ECHO and it OOB capability with the out of band laser capability almost exclusively reserved for military use. I find it unlikely that any commercial; customers would possess such devices, rendering such capability virtually useless.

    As to your question about independent testing, no I am not aware of any having been done on ECHO's. I can just tell you anecdotally, we have tested it on ECHO tubes and it works.

    I hope this helps,

    Feel free to contact me with any additional questions.

    Best regards,

    Sean Kirk


    So to summarize-

    1. ECHO tubes are the commercial grade versions of the INTENS tubes.
    2. ECHO tubes absolutely operate out of band the same as ITENS tubes do- verified two different times now.
    3. ECHO tubes are not modified, "tinkered with", nerfed, derfed or smurfed... to in any way to hobble their performance.


    The question was asked are the Photonis tube "filmless"

    No Photonis does not categorize their tubes that way that is a US standard. Here is the response I received from Photonis a while back when I asked that question.

    “ Hi Michael. All of our tube have a proprietary ion barrier or film. The thin film, film less or filmed has really only been used by the US manufacturers. Our tubes feature an ion barrier that allows for very low Halo and pretext the MCP to preserve tube life. “


    Keep the questions coming, we are happy to help and clear up any questions regarding these tubes! Thanks again
    Robert
    Last edited by Lowdown3; 02-27-2019 at 06:34 PM. Reason: spelling

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  6. #6

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  7. #7
    https://www.nite-walker.com/single-p...-the-new-Gen-3

    Another happy customer and a GREAT COMPARISON article from someone with a lot of experience in Night Vision!

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  8. #8
    Been some BS put out on the web that the "ECHO spec units don't do well in low light"

    Really???? Well let's just see!! And because we LIVE IN THE WOODS, not in some California suburb we take our NV pics and videos IN THE WOODS, you know WHERE IT'S DARK!!! Meanwhile the idiot that claimed these don't do well in "low light" loves to post pics of NV units being used in city and suburban environments where you CAN SEE THE AMBIENT LIGHT off the of McMansions, the STREET LIGHTS and hell even sidewalks!!

    Here's a clue folks- if you see SIDEWALKS in a video or pic touting how well a Night vision device does, understand that they are purposely taking those pics in a HIGH LIGHT environment to make their units look good!

    Here is how a Photonis ECHO spec White Phosphor unit does in a TRUE "LOW LIGHT" SITUATION- not on some schmuck's porch or sidewalk in suburbia!!!!



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  9. #9
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    If I didn't already own a PVS14 that I purchased from JRH Enterprises, then these would certainly be on my list of items to get. Definitely a force multiplier.
    Protecting the sheep from the wolves that want them, their family, their money and full control of our Country!

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