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  1. #11
    SERIOUSLY.. just the cleaning supplies you would use to take care of multiple simultaneous cases of food poisoning, serious stomach flu, dysentery, CHOLERA.. Not to be graphic but consider the logistics of taking care of someone who CANT get out of bed to use the bathroom and they have to "go" several times and hour..Imagine if the virus was contagious?? I got the same virus as my wife , though thankfully not nearly as bad and 24 hours after she had started to recover. What if we both got it at the same time??? Cholera is a huge fear in post event environments.. I am of the mindset that preventative procedures would go a very long way here however, it is a possibility I intend to at least get more serious about preparing for.. Do a search for Cholera cot or bed.. WARNING some sites have graphic images.. Not a pretty thing to think about i know but better to think about it now then when you are having to deal with it..

  2. #12
    Silver Site Supporter 9/2011 Grinnan Barrett's Avatar
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    If you are your loved ones has long term medication needs try to get your doctor to put them on generic forms of the medications. Use the Walmart or other discount pharmacies to fill 90 day at a time for $10. FIll them every month for 90 days. build up at least a year's supply or more. Use the oldest first and keep them in a refrigerator in a dry box to extend the life of the meds. The toughest of the RX items is going to be high dollar cancer drugs or Hard to store items like Diabetes Insulin. You can have all the bandaids in the world but without RX for critical conditions you are in a world of hurt.

    Don't forget generic Musinex, Anti-diarrhea caplets, Potassium tablets, Aspirin, acetaminophen, Antiacids, fiber pills (to keep your stomach going when you don't get enough fiber in your diet), all these in generic forms.

    Don't forget a good mouthwash. The advance form or Listerine makes one heck of a disinfectant.

    Have plans to build a small distilling unit to make alcohol. Not to drink but to use to clean wounds with. YOu may be on your on for some time. A corn supply and a still can make a world of difference and also make for a great barter item. You need some mason jars to put the end product in.

    White sheets and other white cloth come in really handy for make shift bandages. Learn to make soap to clean with. store as much as you can first but be ready to be on your own again in the future.

    For cleaning and disinfecting go to your local janitorial supply and find a really good 256 dilution multiquat disinfectant. Be sure it has kill claims against HIV, Human Coronavirus (Sars) and MRSA in all forms (Hospital, Community based etc.) The 256 refers to it being mixed at 1/2 ounce per gallon. a gallon will make 256 gallons of end use product. This is a neutral product so it will not harm most hard surfaces and needs to be wiped down after drying.

    Buy a big cast iron pot or two or three to boil water in. Clean water is going to be a must for sanitation.

    These things are in addition to the standard first aid and minor surgery items. Not a complete list but off the top of the head this would be my list. GB

  3. #13
    Super Moderator Patriotic Sheepdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanothergunnut View Post
    a while back my wife was sick with a virus.. purging from both ends.. not pretty.. she became so short on electrolytes she passed out and hit her head.. the next 24 hours of here in the hospital was hell to witness and we were surrounded by trained , skilled professionals with the best gear and plenty of supplies.. It occurred to me then while I was there with here in the emergency room that we don't stock NEARLY enough medical supplies.. When someone is loosing fluids at the rate she was it becomes VERY scary.. it took them almost 12 hours to get her stabilized in the ER. She was on every IV you could imagine.. Post event... SHE WOULD HAVE DIED!!! without that level of medical care,, she would have died.. I need to get to that level of medical proficiency.. IV therapy is not magic, we can all gain this level of skill.. I suggest you do... I KNOW I WILL!!
    I get a kick out of the classes that teach you how to start an IV. Okay they are fine and everything, but really, I can teach a teenager the skills to start and IV in probably an hour or two. The real skill is knowing when it is appropriate, what type of fluid is needed and the rate of the fluid you will be infusing. When you are losing fluid like your wife was, she was not only losing fluid volume but was also losing some key electrolytes. Those electrolytes are key for muscles (heart is a muscle) and other critical functions. If she was that fluid depleted, they were probably monitoring her blood work for electrolytes and adding what was needed to the IV bag. The fluid was probably being infused at a specific rate to bring those electrolytes back up to normal. Unfortunately, we won't have those capabilities, so that is where experience will be key. Too much fluid in some situations can put your patient into fluid overload which could possibly be worse than what you were trying to correct. You may have to titrate the IV fluid rate based on your patients vital signs, lung sounds, heart sounds and neurological status. I applaud you for seeing what we will be missing in a PAW, and the fact that you need additional training. I would guess that most people that have taken an IV class a year ago would not be very proficient at it today. Those IV arms are great for practice, but when someone is hemorrhaging or sick with the flu and vomiting and such (like your wife), their veins are going to be very hard to find especially when all you have practiced on is a rubber arm or a group mate with normal vital signs. You do have the capability to perform an intraosseous infusion, central line or a cut down, right? LOL, just kidding.... Keep attending classes. Start with the basics and practice continually. I have been in medicine treating patients for 30+ years and I can tell you experience counts but even with my experience there will be times that in a PAW I will only be able to do so much. Patients die today with the best equipment, so they will die in a PAW without equipment. Get that into your mind now, as we all will see death when TSHTF. The best scenario would be to try and find someone that is in medicine, vet them and get them into your group. If that is not an option, take classes, volunteer at the hospital (you may not be able to do things, but you may see things and can learn), join your Fire Department as a volunteer, CERT, etc. get out and experience patients sick, wounded and dying. Sorry to be a Debbie downer about the death stuff, but that will be reality if it gets to that PAW place.

    Sorry for the thread drift but felt that it was important to say since we were talking about supplies and training.



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  4. #14
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    Never hurts to also learn some "alternative" methods especially the use of herbs, in certain situations they really do work as well as coventoinal medications and unlike conventional meds that will eventually run out and be totally unavailable, herbal preps most usually can be **** with very basic ingredients and kept replenished for a lifetime.

    Don't forget casting material for broken bones plus the means to remove same.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by goatlady View Post
    Never hurts to also learn some "alternative" methods especially the use of herbs, in certain situations they really do work as well as coventoinal medications and unlike conventional meds that will eventually run out and be totally unavailable, herbal preps most usually can be **** with very basic ingredients and kept replenished for a lifetime.
    We have someone coming in soon to teach us more very soon
    Knowledge is Power, Practiced Knowledge is Strength, Tested Knowledge is Confidence

  6. #16
    no need to apologize sheepdog.. reality is what we deal with.. when we get to a certain level its all that matters. I couldnt care less about hearing nice fluffy stories about how easy things will be.. Thats not me, I may not be capable of handling a medical emergency of that magnitude, I am obviously guilty of deluding my self thinking that it was as easy as it appeared. That being said though learning the basics of IV therapy is not beyond me. Your advice about finding someone who is in the medical field and integrating them or us into that group is good advice. We can't all be specialists..

  7. #17
    Super Moderator Patriotic Sheepdog's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, everyone needs to have training and even some advanced training like IVs, crics, needle decompression etc. If I have to start an IV quick I would hope that someone in my group would be right there handing me what I need so it can be done quicker. Of course, I may be on my own so knowing how to do it will be key. Sometimes a skill needs to be done quick as the patient can crash very fast. Having some help will make things possibly go easier and quicker. Get training, get practice, get more training , get more practice. When you think you've learn a skill, do it in the dark with a flashlight, then do it with your gear on in the dark. Problem is, unless you are in the medical field some of the practice part is hard to do, but there is a lot you can do with a SAM splint, some gauze, triangular bandages, tape and Coban.

    Other med supplies I've thought of that I may not have mentioned earlier...

    Coban, or Vet wrap
    Manual suction device
    Decompression needles
    Cricothyrotomy needles
    Large abdominal dressings
    Sterile saline or sterile water for wound irrigation
    Medical instrument kit (shameless plug for JRH enterprises as they use to have a fairly decent one at a good price)
    Tourniquets, yep more than one....CAT one is what I feel is the best
    8"x10" and 5"x9" sterile dressings
    Did I mention bunches of bandaids and antibiotic ointments?
    Examination gloves, I prefer Nitrile over Latex-get multiple sizes as you never know who will show up at your door asking for help. Not all med people are preppers
    Triangular bandages
    Chest seals, again...more than one
    Adaptic dressings (Vaseline dressing)
    Oral and nasopharyngeal airways-multiple sizes
    Ambu bag(s)
    Stethoscope
    Blood pressure cuff
    Pulse oximeter
    Thermometer
    Betadine
    KY lube for nasopharyngeal airway insertion
    Surgical masks and or shields/eye protection. Arterial bleeds can squirt a lot and quite far at times!

    Another thing, where are you going to store things? Med supplies like dressings and bandages can last a long time if stored from varmints. You need to have a grab and go bag/patrol bag first aid kit, IFAK, Blow out kit, and base kit. Of course each if these will have slightly different kit contents and amount of supplies, but all need the basics. Again, www.jrhenterprises.com has some good kits. Check them out and support the forum sponsor.

    We haven't even talked about Rx meds like antibiotics, oral steroids, oral antivirals, topical creams, etc. Everyone talks about the antibiotics but I wouldn't want to have a run in with a bad case of poison ivy and not have something to calm it down or be exposed to the flu and not have Tamiflu. Germ warfare has been used in the past, so it won't take a genius to figure out to send someone sick into your camp, then wait a few days when many of your group is sick and attack.

    I agree also with previous post about learning more about natural/herbal remedies. They can be very appropriate as well to have stored up.

    Just a few more of my thoughts.

    When is the next class of Survival Medicine that JRH sponsors coming up?


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  8. #18
    Thanks sheep dog

    in regards to your list.. please if you dont mind critique what I have vs what I have on my short list and possible advance items you think a trained medical pro may want/need that I can stock easily..

    Coban, or Vet wrap I have 2" 50 rolls 3" 50 rolls
    Manual suction deviceI dont currently have ,I have considered it, recommendations please
    Decompression needlesI have North American Rescue 20 qty
    Cricothyrotomy needles
    Large abdominal dressings
    Sterile saline or sterile water for wound irrigationI have 4 cases 48 bottles 1000ml ea
    Medical instrument kit (shameless plug for JRH enterprises as they use to have a fairly decent one at a good price)I have several wound closure kits that include sterile instrument kits
    Tourniquets, yep more than one....CAT one is what I feel is the bestI have 15 red tip CAT's and 7 SOF
    8"x10" and 5"x9" sterile dressings
    Did I mention bunches of bandaids and antibiotic ointments?
    Examination gloves, I prefer Nitrile over Latex-get multiple sizes 6 boxes of lg and 6 boxes mediumas you never know who will show up at your door asking for help. Not all med people are preppers
    Triangular bandages
    Chest seals, again...more than oneI have 20+ hyfin chest seals as well as several other brands
    Adaptic dressings (Vaseline dressing)
    Oral and nasopharyngeal airways-multiple sizesI have 20+ nasal airway tubes as well as lube packets
    Ambu bag(s)
    StethoscopeI have ONE
    Blood pressure cuffI have ONE
    Pulse oximeter
    Thermometer
    Betadine
    KY lube for nasopharyngeal airway insertion
    Surgical masks and or shields/eye protection. Arterial bleeds can squirt a lot and quite far at times!
    I also have several 3+ dozen rolls of 6" gauze , 50 H&H compressed gauze, 100+ of ea. size assorted gauze 2" 4" 6" , 10 Quick clot combat gauze(millitary grade, not powdered garbage)IV starter sets, catheters, assorted needle sets, Dental emergency kits, Field burn kit modules

    I sell a fair amount of medical supplies for preppes at gun shows but I want to step up my personal supplies above the normal.. In addition I also keep a pretty healthy stock of antibiotics(Amox,tetra,zithro,cipro,augmentin.. all the normal stuff) and otc drugs.. everything from cold/flu remedies to poison oak treatment and anti bacterial cremes. Any advice would be VERY appreciated..

  9. #19
    Super Moderator Patriotic Sheepdog's Avatar
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    As far as numbers of things, again, that would depend on the size of your group. A family of four lets say, may only need 8 of a particular items where a group of 20 may need more. I'll only say, get more then you think you'll need. Double or triple would be good, but we all have budgets and priorities. I'm sure each of us will say, "if I had only gotten ............. Instead of -------- " a few times after TSHTF.

    Disclaimer
    I have dealt with Rescue Essentials before, but have no financial interest in them. There are many companies out there, so look around.

    I WOULD ASK THAT ANYONE LOOKING AT MEDICAL EQUIPMENT (or any other supplies) CONTACT JRH ENTERPRISES ( www.JRHEnterprises.com ) IF THEY HAVE WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. JRH SPONSORS THIS FORUM AND WE NEED TO TRY AND SUPPORT THEM WHEN WE CAN.

    Manual suction- http://www.rescue-essentials.com/rescue-suction-unit/
    Decompression needles - I have North American Rescue 20 qt (I hope you don't need all of these)
    Cricothyrotomy needles - http://www.rescue-essentials.com/nar...tical-crickit/ or you could use a chest decompression needle, but you will have to find a pediatric endotracheal tube and take off the end of that and attach to the hub of the needle. This would allow an Ambu bag to attach to the needle. I have also seen a syringe attach to the needle and the Ambu bag then goes into the place where the plunger of the syringe would be. I cannot remember the size syringe off the top of my head, maybe a 10mL, but I'm not sure.
    Large abdominal dressings - http://www.rescue-essentials.com/tra...sterile-10x30/ you would know why you need such a large dressing if you had ever seen an evisceration.
    Sterile saline or sterile water for wound irrigation<font color="#FF0000">I have 4 cases 48 bottles 1000ml - should be good here
    Medical instrument kit (shameless plug for JRH enterprises as they use to have a fairly decent one at a good price) I have several wound closure kits that include sterile instrument kits - Just make sure they are metal that you could boil to sterilize if you needed them again.
    Tourniquets, yep more than one....CAT one is what I feel is the best - I have 15 red tip CAT's and 7 SOF (this is one thing many people think they only need one of. We all should have one on our BOK, one on our IFAK and one in every vehicle you own. I'm sure there were a few people in Boston that wanted a tourniquet).
    8x10 and 5x9& sterile dressings - get as many as you think you need and double or triple it.
    Did I mention bunches of bandaids and antibiotic ointments?
    Examination gloves, I prefer Nitrile over Latex-get multiple sizes 6 boxes of lg and 6 boxes medium as you never know who will show up at your door asking for help. Not all med people are preppers. - I would add a couple boxes of small. I work with another provider that wears small. If you want, get some sterile surgical gloves as well.
    Triangular bandages - this is a great tool. We all should have a couple dozen or so.
    Chest seals, again...more than one. I have 20+ hyfin chest seals as well as several other brands. Unless you have a very large group, and expecting several firefights, you should be good here. Remember, you may need two for some patients as there may be an entry and exit wound.
    Adaptic dressings (Vaseline dressing) - can double for chest seal if needed, or wound care.
    Oral and nasopharyngeal airways-multiple sizes - I have 20+ nasal airway tubes as well as lube packets. Just make sure you have various sizes for your group members.
    Ambu bag(s) - Many brands out there, pick one. http://www.rescue-essentials.com/poc...ag-valve-mask/
    Stethoscope - I have ONE....two is one, one is none as the saying goes
    Blood pressure cuff - I have ONE - ditto above
    Pulse oximeter - get one
    Thermometer
    Betadine - get a gallon
    Burn sheets - these would be nice to have as well as they are large sheets to cover big areas of the body.

    You said that you "sell a fair amount of medical supplies for preppes at gun shows but I want to step up my personal supplies above the normal.. In addition I also keep a pretty healthy stock of antibiotics(Amox,tetra,zithro,cipro,augmentin.. all the normal stuff) and otc drugs.. everything from cold/flu remedies to poison oak treatment."

    Your stock seems to be pretty good. Having the supplies to sell at shows helps you out quite a bit on inventory. Some additional thoughts...

    No need to have any "advanced" medical kits for the wandering doctor/PA/Nurse/EMT-Paramedic that stumbles into your compound. Without the equipment we have in the hospital (anesthesia, staff, lots of IV antibiotics, ventilators, bypass machines, X-rays, CT/MRIs, etc.) not many of the chests that are cracked open, or bellies explored will have a very good prognosis.

    Splint kit would help. The SAM splints are nice for a backpack, but if you don't have casting materials and skills, then having some air splints or rigid splints would be useful. A traction splint for a fractured femur is another item, but expensive.

    Tamiflu for flu.
    Valtrex for shingles/fever blisters/HSV may be a good idea but not "high priority".

    Topical meds, as not a high priority, will be a great comfort item. If you have jock itch or poison ivy or any itchy rash that has an unbearable itch, some good topical meds will be much appreciated.

    Topical steroid creams/lotions
    Topical antifungal creams/powders
    Anti-Itch creams/lotions
    Antibiotic cream/ointment

    Just a few more of my rambling thoughts....


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    Protecting the sheep from the wolves that want them, their family, their money and full control of our Country!

    Guns and gear are cool, but bandages stop the bleeding!

    ATTENTION: No trees or animals were harmed in any way in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were really ticked off!

    NO 10-289!

  10. #20
    thank you for your input sheepdog.. I appreciate your expertise..

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